…’cause I done crashed the car.
They1 say that it’s part of the journey to escalate at a rate too fast for the girl, and that knowing precisely the optimal pace at which to push towards the bedroom is something that comes with experience and calibration. I’m happy to report that I’ve now broken past the speed limit. I’m even more happy to report that I knew I was going to fast. I could feel it. This highly k-selected girl needed more than the typical 1-2 dates for the lay, likely only trading sex for a relationship.
Let’s go back to initial approach, nearly a month ago now. I saw this girl passing to my left, wearing denim short shorts, a black tube top and white sneakers. Taller than I like, but she was slim with brown skin and an attractive face. I used my standard opening compliment “hey hey excuse me, I just saw you passing by and thought you looked kinda cute”. Note the “kinda” modifier. I don’t typically hold the compliment back, but just as quickly as she stopped, she proceeded to walk around me. I figured the set is lost, so pulled back on the compliment in response to her lack of interest. She then came to a complete stop for the second time and replied “kinda? Oh okay…I like that”. Game on.2
Since I had nothing specific to say about her clothing, I commented on her aura and stated “you have a very chill vibe, very Californian. You don’t have the typical New York rush/style something something something”. It went decently well from there. At some point she said she models and is a photographer, to which I teased her for being a typical Instagram girl:
Turns out she did respond.
She was half-Czech half-Guyana, but American born and spent a few months in New Zealand before moving to NYC. Her interest wasn’t high enough to open up an evening to meet that week, and with every passing day the chance of a date fell off. I pinged a few days later, a Thursday I believe, to keep the remaining momentum going into the weekend. (Shout out to Mr. V for the text ping, inspired by something DaygameWorks showed us.)
Hallelujah, we’re in business! I intentionally kept the details vague since that makes it easy to ping later with additional logistics. And as you’ll now see, it gave her an opportunity to reach out first.
Some of you may have noticed that I’m following a standard texting template here. In short, it’s a cycle of tease/ping-momentum-logistics, then bits of comfort where appropriate (see Mr. V’s guide and Krauser’s Mastery and Infinite). On to the date then!
It was fairly straightforward, as we sat side-by-side on a bench at the park. We shared our stories: interests, jobs, travels, family, different cities, NYC. She loved the comfort material and gave mostly yellow lights to my escalation, which started with incidental touching and a few comments here and there demonstrating my physical attraction towards her. For some reason, we were discussing her teeth, which I then used as a running joke to spike…”sorry…you caught my eyes wandering…I can’t help but enjoy a nice set of…teeth ;-)”. At some point, I took out my phone to show her a picture of my ideal dog, a Bernese Mountain Dog, while scooting over to give her a better viewing angle. She called this out in a fun way “ah, so that’s how you were planning on moving closer to me.” I smiled and went on. After the few minutes I readjusted and added some space between us. Push-pull. Two steps forward, one step back. It’s a dance. She dropped a red light once or twice, but mostly yellow, so I didn’t get much further then a light touch of her earlobe. After an hour or so, it was time for a short venue shift before calling it a night. I had enough to know that the kiss attempt is there.
I told her there’s another park nearby, about a 15 minute walk. “Let’s go”. As we sprung off the bench, she pointed to a water bottle in her back pocket and said “it’s a style I’m introducing to the world”. Of course I then asked her to excuse me for lewdly staring at her behind to which she smirked. During our 15 minute walk northward, I noticed her water bottle was stumbling out of her back pocket–how lamentable would it be were such a fine potable of sustenance to sully itself upon the open earth?! I could not let such calamity befall this fine city of York! So I grabbed the water bottle off her back pocket, and she playfully became upset.
She laughed and said something like “You know, I should be mad but I’m not. You’re not an asshole, but you do some asshole things. And I don’t mind it.” Now that attraction is confirmed, time to drive the point home (a la Krauser): I ask her “so what do you like about me”. She says something about me being sure of myself, not being afraid of being who I truly am, my honesty and that I can feel out the vibe of a situation. All is well. A few minutes later, I tell her I’m going to kiss her when we get to the next park. She just smiles. Before getting to the park I hold her hand, as we then continue walking through the park I palm her lower back, pull her in and go for it. She says no. I say, “I’m a guy, I have to try. You can stop me.” And she does, with her finger to my lips and says “no, I can’t kiss you on a first date. I can’t kiss on a first date”. Did I mention she was K?
We walk for another ten minutes and I drop her off at the subway station. She denies my second kiss attempt but shows appreciation for it.
I send a text that evening then went straight on to the logistics for the next date. The back-and-forth is light-hearted and simple. Nothing fancy, just having a bit of fun.
Things are looking mighty good at this point! Also notice the comfort test3 about her veganism in the lead up to the date. The subtext here is “don’t make it weird”, to which my response was “don’t worry, let’s just have fun.” I later teased her about veganism being a disease, and hoping it’s not contagious4. We meet outside the station then head over to grab a quick dinner to-go to enjoy at the park. Materially, the second date is very similar to the first except that her attraction has been explicitly stated. It’s a mix of heavy comfort with a small bit of teasing, as that’s what she responded most to. After finishing up our meals, I laid down on the blanket and shortly after pulled her in for the kiss, which turned into a little make out. That’s how we spent the next half hour: chatting and little make outs.
I would escalate a bit more from there, but was met with red lights. For example, when I placed my hand on her ass she gently moved it away. When I went to kiss her neck, she stopped me and said “Not today, but I do like that. For future reference.” All is going swell. I play with her earlobes. “You like ears huh?” “You don’t?” “I don’t know…”–this girl really hasn’t had proper sexual relations. Definitely K.
I press forward on the earlobe thing “well, let’s find out.” “No stop, not today.” I kiss her on the lips and go back to chit chat.
For the next half hour so, we continue the chilling-tonguing cycle. As the sun fell, the fireflies came out. At some point, I tell her to look at those orange fireflies, then sneakily bite her ear. She didn’t take to kindly to that. “I expressly told you not to do that, and you did it anyways. That’s not okay.” I crossed her line. I said “ok”, rolled off, and continued chatting as though nothing happened. Another, say 15 minutes, later we head back to the station. All seems fine as we go back to our chatting-kissing cycle, but in my gut I can feel the damage is done.
As I step off the train station, she lowers her mask to offer me a kiss then we say our good byes. I send a quick text that evening.
The next day brought forth confirmation of my suspicions.
She says that the earlobe incident was the deal breaker, but in retrospect, I was escalating too frequently in general. The pats on the ass, the frequency of make outs, the sexual innuendo. In retrospect, I should have toned down the amount of kissing when it became clear I needed to count down the dates to close this nice, young lady.
And so the story ends. No lay, but not fruitless. I mark the short experience with this girl as a minor success in my path to mastery, since it’s the most comfortable I’ve ever been throughout the process. My text responses felt natural and didn’t require a committee to generate. I didn’t need to pre-plan my date material and felt comfortable just going with the flow. Though there were few times when I’d get in my head, for the most part it all “just happened”. I blended comfort with attraction and escalation. Rather than forcing canned material, I was able to create my own superficial subtexts to escalate and lead. I didn’t fall into the trap qualifying myself to her or boring her with my opinions on the value of ultra-sound bitcoin.
My overall seduction skills are much improved, and they’re only getting better as my ability to calibrate sharpens.
- Krauser and Torero
- “Be nice”, they told me. “Be best friends first”, they said.
- I’m not sure if Red Quest coined the term, but he’s the first person I’ve seen to explain the concept.
- Though there is a cure. It’s called “ribs”.
I really enjoy these detailed field reports.
I would have been curious if she’d have reopened you over text following the first date. I read it as a not-so good sign that she wouldn’t kiss on the first date, especially off a street approach in a place like NYC. Never good in my experience.
My instinct would have been to roll off and be shorter with her over text after that first experience. “Increase the price of our attention,” as they say. This dread game may filter for damaged women, however.
A beautiful story, even if it didn’t end as it should have.
“Comfort test” is not original to me, although I have no idea where I first encountered the idea, but when I did, it made immediate sense to me, because I’ve been encountering them since at least high school… generally, if you’re getting them, that’s a good overall sign.
Congrats overall.
Thanks man.
It’s a brilliant concept. So much of game material is focuses on the escalation, teasing and shit tests. It tends to gloss over comfort, probably because that’s part of a general social skill set that isn’t confined to seduction.
I would bet that when guys fail comfort tests, it’s because they’re too focused on seduction-specific tactics.
Be real, be human, and accommodate comfort tests.
Hey Breeze. Stoked to hear you’re Gaming a little and getting into the “dance” with some girls.
I am operating under a major theory right now , so I’ll “project” my theory onto your date here as as I make a few comments. I am taking some stuff Yohami taught me, and adding to it…
> This highly k-selected girl needed more than the typical 1-2 dates for the lay, likely only trading sex for a relationship
I think this conclusion has you “out over your skis” a bit. I don’t think you have enough details to know this, and you may be avoiding other info/conclusions (=opportunities to learn) when you say “she wouldn’t advance because she needs a rel first.” I think there probably are some girls out there like that, but I am not sure I have met one yet…
It’s common to say, and she may want a rel, and waiting a few dates might have been better… but I haven’t met a girl yet that “trades sex for a rel.” I think that is over simplification that has become a myth in Game. I personally think that theory isn’t going to help you.
She did want (to see) something before she went forward… but “being your GF” probably wasn’t it.
>> in retrospect, I was escalating too frequently in general
This is more on point, and contradicts your earlier point that you need to be her BF first. I think you’re more accurate here. This will teach you something. This is where I would start.
And it’s not that she doesn’t like the things you tried to do… but something was missing that would have made it work.
>> I should have toned down the amount of kissing when it became clear I needed to count down the dates to close this nice, young lady.
I think the kissing was probably okay… sounds like she was okay with all the making out. Probably more than that.
The question is: If the vibe between you and her was exactly the same “on the third date,” would it have been on? I don’t think so. She was “hitting the breaks” over and over, and with some “heat” in her vibe (that is what I take from your post).
It’s not the number of dates. And I say that, with full belief that a lot of girls DO need 2-4 dates to relax into it. It’s more than “the number of dates.”
This girl has a bit of attitude, she isn’t super “soft,” some of the date is likely just her personality… but…
You weren’t pacing to where she was at. That is the issue. She could not feel that you were “with her.” And if a girl can’t feel that, she spit you out. It’s not safe. It’s not sexy.
We get it in our heads to “always be escalating” or “she needs three dates” in both cases, we say that without really looking at the girl in front of us. In those cases, we have already decided “what she needs” before we have even met her. This is “seduction robot stuff.” It’s not terrible. It works, some of the time, but it’s “lower-intermediate Game.” It’s not smooth.
INSTEAD: Can you tell what she personally, in that moment, is ready for? Do you even care?
When she can feel that ^, she’ll have a better experience. And if you feel that, you’ll move in different ways.
To do that, I think you need to escalate. Yes. Go 85% of the way. And then, pause. And really pay attention to her reaction. Be excited to notice it. Notice it. Really fucking notice it. And then look at her in way that SHE CAN FEEL “this guy can feel where I am at.” This is what totally changed LMR and escalation for me.
I love “LMR” now, it is a sexy, fun, beautiful experience for me now… almost everytime.
I am aggressive. I play right up to the edge. I have girls pushing me away, all that.
But… I am constantly putting “50% of my attention” on noticing where she is at, and constantly “showing her” (sometimes telling her) where she is at.
EX: You escalate. It’s too much. She says something. Look her right in her eyes, nodding, okay, I got you. It’s not a “technique.” Really care where she is at. You take her hand, she wants to object… but you’re only holding her hand now, “Hey, it’s holding hands, you’re okay, you can handle it.” And she can handle it. You’re right, and you ARE pacing her at this point. So a minute later maybe you step in kiss her, and she pulls back and you notice, and hang there, and check her breathing, and you smile with her. You’re already “having sex.” This is what is feels like.
Don’t go all the way to “no.” Smile at her. Let her FEEL that you’re there, paying attention to where she is at… You’re not in a hurry to go anywhere… you’re already there. “I got you, you’re good,” and play with her hair, and WAIT until you feel she can handle it, “okay, you’re looking better, c’mere,” etc. She smiles. And it’s hot.
It’s not really how quickly the seduction is moving… its that SHE CAN FEEL YOU FEELING HER. If the guy can’t feel her, she is not safe. Maybe not physically safe, and almost definitely not emotionally safe. So she objects… not because she doesn’t like sex, or because it’s “too soon,” but because a “robot” that “can’t feel her” trying to fuck isn’t really that sexy to her. It’s not going to be a good experience (not really for you either… she’s right).
A great tool is to notice if she is breathing. If she isn’t, I make her take a couple of deep breaths with me. I notice if actually does take a breath. I notice if she calms down, sinks into the moment. When she does, I say “Okay, there you go… that’s better, you’re more relaxed,” then I step in again, if she freaks, I say breathe, breathe… and I wait. And I enjoy watching her settle in. This is it. This is sex. It’s already happening.
This is so beyond amateur “pushing.”
If she follows my lead, I can walk her right into sex. If she can’t follow my lead… I back off some more, see if that is enough. Or give her another night. (The virgin I fucked in Jun took four dates, we were at the edge the whole time, she loved it). If she really can never follow my lead… I don’t want to date her… but I almost never see that happen. With enough mastery, most girls will fall right into it.
This is seduction. Physical seduction. It’s leadership. It’s deeply masculine, almost paternal. It’s not really about the number of dates… but that can help.
I don’t really want to desensitize her. I want her 10000% “sensitive.” But I need her to FEEL that I know exactly where she is at, and when she FEELS that (which is rare for her, especially on a first date, etc), she can relax… but she can also get very into it. She can let it flow.
You are constantly, every minute, customizing your next move to the girl. Welcoming her reaction, showing you can feel it. Enjoying watching her feel it. This is hot. Looking forward to customizing to her breath and her level of sensitivity. This is an unbelievable experience for a girl. This is fucking… even if your cock isn’t inside her yet.
You might still need for dates, but it’s not “resistance” at that point.
That’s my “theory.” It’s not really a theory. It “works.” And I know it because she and I enjoy the time so much… when I can dial all this in.
An overarching theme of the interaction with this girl is that I was overly mechanical:
>You weren’t pacing to where she was at.
>We get it in our heads to “always be escalating”
>This is “seduction robot stuff.”
The phrasing you use here is spot on:
>If she can’t follow my lead
Very insightful, it speaks to a mindset more than anything else.