Now entering week 6 of stay-at-home orders, the coronavirus pandemic rages on. Some say it will take a vaccine, 18-24 months away, to restore normality. Others believe relief is right around the corner once we accept life and death are chance occurrences that should be confronted instead of being artificially dodged. The numbers and true impact are all over the place. We don’t have an accurate count of the number of infected since testing is severely limited, to such a degree that some experts multiply the current infected count by a factor of ten. Similarly we don’t have a true count of the death toll as those that never make it to a hospital are not being tested for the virus post-death. The best I can piece things together, there are many, many more infected than there are dying, so the death rate, though perhaps higher than a bad flu, is stressing the health care system by absolute numbers. Practically, this means stay healthy and carry on. Do your pushups, take your walks, get your eight hours of sleep, eat your protein, avoid sugar and supplement your meals with vitamin D. But what do I know, I’m no medic.
No, I’m simply an aspiring player who is out of commission until the pandemic passes. My last daygame outing with Mr. V was just before lockdown orders were issued in the state. On that fateful weekend, on pi day of 2020, I opened a girl who immediately stepped in to hug me, right off the stop. Initially this made no sense to me, though I kept a calm demeanor. I quickly calculated that this little cutie assumed I knew her so she moved to engage in socially polite behavior. Adorable! But I don’t run the streets for hugs, I run them for naughty nights under the covers and stealing a hug didn’t seem conducive to my goals, so I gently held her back with my palm on her shoulder and explained “No, we never met. I just saw you passing by and thought you looked cute. So I wanted to come say hi.” She simply said “thank you”, smiled and walked off before I could stack forward. Fuckin’ NYC.
Thus began my lockdown period.
In a previous post I listed my priority of books to read, which has since been shifted around a bit. One may notice a surprising entry for a practitioner of Game and TRP, carrying the corny title Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus (MMWV) by John Gray published in 1992. Folks in this space tend to be surrounded by TRP material, which seems overly harsh at times. To balance out my content, I decided to pick up a mainstream book on relationship advice, one that has lasted the test of time and has the potential to deliver real insight. MMWV met these criteria.
Right off the bat, I was happy to read that this book acknowledges that men and women operate differently. We think differently, we prioritize differently, our life goals and values are different, and we communicate differently. I grew up in the 90’s just outside of Atlanta, in an area that had an interesting mix of liberal and conservative values. Between exposure to progressive ideas implicit to our public education, with mostly female teachers leading classes, and feminist attitudes on TV shows, early in my life I was indoctrinated to the idea that men and women are entirely equivalent. In all ways entirely, except one: women are holy and men have to prove themselves to receive the benevolence of women. Men and women are equally capable, equally focused and determined, equally concerned about truth, equally dedicated to understanding nuance, except men are horny dogs that lack emotional depth. I believed for a very, very long time that men were inferior versions of women.
Though my teachers assigned classics in literature (Orwell, Steinbeck, Twain), they left out some OG red pillers such as Hemingway and Rand (Remember when Roark hooks up with Dominique for the first time? It’s a damn-near certainty he tied her up, stuffed her with a butt plug then facefucked her into ecstatic oblivion). I don’t blame my teachers or society though, it was my choice to refuse reality. The evidence that men and women are different is everywhere around us, once we know what it looks like. The red pill analogy is astutely germane to this reality: after you know what to look for you, you can’t unsee it.
Back to Gray. He kicks off the book with some red pill truths and game. In fact, just two chapters in I tweeted my surprised satisfaction with his premise.
Early on he hits some fundamentals principles of game. Of course, he wasn’t so crass as our community of misfits in explaining his ideas. This is exciting. We now have a book to share with our blue-pilled friends to get their minds slowly turning towards the veiled reality through gentle, palatable means. Already I concluded that this sort of book would not be published today. As I researched it’s criticisms, lo and behold, the primary attack on this work challenges the axiom that men and women are different. Critics believe any differences between men and women are due to cultural stereotypes and social constructs. To those critics I ask, “where did the stereotypes come from? Was it when men were fighting the World Wars and women worked service jobs? No, the stereotypes were already established so it must have been before that. Was it during the industrial revolution? No, before that. Perhaps during the unification of Germany. Or the founding of America. Or the Renaissance. Nope, it was definitely before that. Then during the Byzantine empire? The Romans? Greeks? Ah, now we’re getting in to ancient and pre-ancient history. What do we know about tribes? Looks like at the natives of New Guinea. Their societies abound with masculine-feminine polarity. Then perhaps gender differences are a byproduct of evolution. Let’s look to our ancestral apes.”
The deeper we go, the more confirmation we find that men and women complement each other; they don’t compete or collaborate. They complement. I know, a critic would have stopped listening two questions in to my line of reasoning because they have already formed their belief, and their core identify depend on perception rather than truth.
Let’s resume. As I read on, I found that I could succinctly summarize his work as follows.
Men: Don’t lose your cool, don’t argue. Treat her like a child.
Women: Don’t be demanding, don’t be annoying. Respect his leadership.
Clear and obvious to most folks reading this blog. So how does he manage to expand this thesis to 400 pages? Mostly by anecdotes, specific techniques, and plenty of redundancy. By example, he shares the common story where a woman will say, in her passive aggressive tone, “we don’t spend time together anymore” and the man responds “we went out last Saturday to watch [insert rom-com of the day here] and had sushi.” Though Gray shies away from an explicit description, he specifies that women speak emotionally, not logically. What she’s actually saying is “can we go out tonight”? Obvious, right? It wasn’t for me, not before I began my study of Game.
He shares decent information regarding the “soft” side of seduction. I think this is important for retention. Being a one-and-done cad has it’s appeal, but repeat sex requires more than push/pull. There needs to be a deeper understanding present. Points 5, 10 and 12 in Magnum’s Rules of Retention lay out the framework. Gray expands on them.
MMWV, however, focuses on cohabitating couples so it’s application to pick up gears towards the latter end, on relationship management. You won’t find examples of teasing or amused mastery in this one. Rather, he writes a lot about the difference in stress response between the two genders. Men under fire go in to their metaphorical Cave to workout their issues in solace, or distract themselves with news, TV, building plane models, repairing a squeaky door, etc. This is because men want to solve problems immediately or refresh their minds to come back to it later.
Women on the other hand need to wash away their worries in a Well. They need an emotional tampon. They don’t want a solution, they want sympathy. They are not driven by a logical resolution to ease their anguish. They crave validation, be it from their prison mate husband or the herd.
Sounds pretty good for a mainstream book on men-women relationships, doesn’t it?
At this point, I’m halfway through the book and ready to recommend it to blue-pilled buddies and the even Game community. But I don’t. I hadn’t yet finished the book. And thankfully so. It took a deep turn for the worse. It then proposed that the man fall emphatically into the woman’s frame, and unquestionably so. Dread game would send shivers down Gray’s back.
The rest of the book is inundated with anti-Game. Rather than disciplining bad behavior by removing attention, it recommends we accommodate it. As an example, imagine a guy relaxing after dinner reading the paper (this was written in the early 90s) and she says bitchingly, with an annoyed intonation, “we never go out anymore.” Gray correctly advises not to argue back but he incorrectly states to accommodate this fallacious statement (they went out a few days ago) with “honey, I know I’ve been busy lately and we haven’t spent more time together. Come sit with me. Tell me about your day.” Much better, we’re changing her mood not her mind. But we’re also telling her “I’m always available to you, even when you make accusatory statements that float above the grounds of reality.” I don’t know the best response quite frankly, but it certainly depends on *how* she makes her request. There’s a massive difference between “Honey, can we go out tonight? You’ll love this new restaurant Becky was telling me about!” and “So, are you just going to read that paper all evening? After I did all the cleaning and laundry today?”
MMWV also acknowledges the well-documented mood swings women experience on an approximately monthly cycle. (Side note: some of you readers may be surprised to know that in America, it’s taboo to acknowledge the change in emotional behavior of women due to hormone cycles. Remember, women follow the herd and the American herd is doing their damndest to convince women they need to be like men). Rather than enforce boundaries in these situations, say by withdrawing attention and reengaging after the storm passes, he recommends giving her extra attention; i.e. reward her bad behavior. Sure, you avoid an argument but you’re rolling over and setting a bad precedent. Mr. V recently tweeted a TikTok of a girl crying on the phone to (yes, “to” not “with”) her boyfriend for unspecified reasons. The young man apologized while the girl turned to her friend, who was recording the incident, and flashed a mischievous smile. The friend could barely suppress her laughter. We set ourselves up for failure when we act weak.
The consequences of the weak actions expressed in this book ultimately murder attraction. I’m talking manslaughter here. It takes core elements of masculinity and hands them to the girl with a note that says “put me out of my misery.” Then she does. And everyone loses. Not because she wants to, in fact it disgusts her to do so, but she must. She’s programmed to do so. It’s in her nature.1
Here’s one last example from the man that begins to unravel TRP, but feebly responds, perhaps with the hope disillusionment that Nice Guys do win. To build a happy home, he suggests men entertain women’s inability to appreciate large sacrifices that men make by investing more. Amazing that he uncovers the truth that women are incapable of appreciating a man’s worth ethic and his efforts—but he effectively walks it back by telling men to compensate and give more to women. On top of the big sacrifices, like bringing home the cheese, he must also do little things like pick up flowers on his way home to surprise his soon-to-be nauseated lady thing.
At the half way point, I would have recommended this book to help men who have trouble with retention. There were enough nuggets in there to bring the velvet to the steel. Unfortunately it turn took a turn for the worse midway through and disseminates too many methods of anti-game. As someone who had a four-year relationship with a woman, three of which were in shared quarters, I can attest to the severity of damage this book will cause to a woman’s attraction for him. And once attraction is gone, it cannot be recovered. There are no phoenixes in love. Bury the poor creature and move on. Learn how to bring new women in to your life and do not repeat the same mistakes. You’ll be happier. Your girl(s) will be happier.
Perhaps my reaction to this book is stronger than others because I have tried a representative sample of his suggested techniques mistakes and sacrificed my own principles, my code, to accommodate the four-year ex. I’ve seen first-hand what it looks like when attraction is replaced with resentment. And I know how shitty it feels to be in a relationship where you only fuck once a month and it’s obvious she doesn’t like it. It’s what I imagine it would be like for us men to fuck a 4. Experiencing that process is like having water slip through our fingers for the first time; we can’t stop it and we don’t have the tools to fix it.
This dragged on quite a bit. Let’s end on a joke. John Gray advises we write Love Letters to our girls on a regular basis2.
Hey Breeze. It’s been on my list to give this piece a serious read.
Nice job. Good coverage of the book, nice integrations of lessons… by your choice of lessons, we can see where you are in Game. What you see. Your specific commentary.
I know we talked when you first started it, and you were hopeful… but your review goes well with the vibe I remember from this book when I first looked at it 20 years ago.
> This dragged on quite a bit. Let’s end on a joke. John Gray advises we write Love Letters to our girls on a regular basis.
And I like ending too… nice, long paragraphs, big concepts, and then… CRASH… we slam into a brick wall and it’s over.
Well done.
Some ONE-OFF NOTES, and then something more serious in the next comment:
> I opened a girl who immediately stepped in to hug me, right off the stop. Initially this made no sense to me, though I kept a calm demeanor.
I think I have approached about 7000+ girls. And in all that time… I think I got 3 (unrequested) hugs. Total. And TWO OF THEM WERE ON THE SAME DAY. I was shocked. I was clearly not asking for it… but something about me that day, right? (=”energy”)
I love the “girls hugging daygamers” notes.
And I do NOT think she thought she knew you, BTW. She hugged you because you “unlocked her” with your “vibe.” It was an instinctual thing for her, based on what you showed her. And then, as you clarified your intent, you lost the vibe… you HAD “golden vibe” and you traded it in for something strong, but more “grounded.” And you didn’t fill the vacuum fast enough, so she drifted off like a goldfish’s attention span.
: ]
> early in my life I was indoctrinated to the idea that men and women are entirely equivalent. In all ways entirely, except one: women are holy and men have to prove themselves to receive the benevolence of women
I believe you’re being sarcastic here, but I believe this is “true.” Women aren’t “holy,” but to the average man… THEIR ATTENTION IS SO RARE… they “worship” girls our of scarcity.
The LATTER PART of that IS CORRECT: We DO HAVE TO PROVE OURSELVES. True, true, true. And it is a little boy that argues otherwise. And little boys are not attractive.
Prove yourself. Every day. Until you die. It is the law of the land. And it is a perfect law.
> The deeper we go, the more confirmation we find that men and women complement each other; they don’t compete or collaborate. They complement.
Nicely said. I wanted to argue with “collaborate,” but you’re right. I don’t really collaborate with girls. Complement is better.
> You won’t find examples of teasing or amused mastery in this one.
I like this note too. You’ve heard me push back on the concept of “teasing” (which was really big with you NYC guys). It’s a great technique/skill (or… it showcases other skills like wit, charm, calibration)… but I don’t think teasing is essential. I don’t do it much at all.
But when you compare it to AMUSED MASTERY, I think you bring it together for me. Part of why a tease is effective is because it is itself a kind of AMUSED MASTERY.
So teasing is certainly NOT essential (I insist), but it is a great example of amused mastery… also not essential, but very, very attractive.
Good post 👌🏻 I’ve always had this on my recommended reading list even though it’s blue pill. It’s a good starting point for guys so they can see what the mainstream thinks is good relationship/woman advice. Then they can follow it up with The Rational Male.
Okay, now I’ll argue a bit. I’ll give you some YOHAMI style love:
> What she’s actually saying is “can we go out tonight”? Obvious, right? It wasn’t for me, not before I began my study of Game.
THIS ^ caught my attention, and I was going to say something about it… but you went there first:
> The rest of the book is inundated with anti-Game.
> As an example, imagine a guy relaxing after dinner reading the paper
> she says bitchingly, with an annoyed intonation, “we never go out anymore.” Gray correctly advises not to argue back but he incorrectly states to accommodate this fallacious statement (they went out a few days ago) with “honey, I know I’ve been busy lately and we haven’t spent more time together. Come sit with me. Tell me about your day.”
I think he is almost right there. Maybe not. It would REALLY depend on how he held himself. And the look in his eyes. And the vibe of what he does next. But…
At the HIGHEST LEVEL… I think “those words” are almost exactly what a kind of master would say. But he’d add all the rest that makes it a “perfect” response. He is almost there. And his interpretation (what I hear) is almost exactly right….
And it STARTS WITH HIS UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON:
> > What she’s actually saying is “can we go out tonight”? Obvious, right? It wasn’t for me, not before I began my study of Game.
So, I don’t think she is asking to go out. Even if she literally said “I want to go out” it still likely wouldn’t be about that… not really. That is to say, you could completely wrangle her without taking her out at all. The taking her out isn’t the point.
> Rather than disciplining bad behavior by removing attention, it recommends we accommodate it.
You’re right about discipline. And I am not afraid of confrontation… let’s look at it like this:
HER: “we don’t spend time together anymore”
I bet they spend plenty of time together. The time isn’t the thing. Neither is going out.
IT’S THE ATTENTION. It is the QUALITY OF THE ATTENTION. That is why his response is kind of right… or completely right, if it came from the right part of him.
Super genius “THIRD STAGE MEN” would get it. They would say, “she is calling for MY BEST SELF.” That her call is a way for YOU to NOTICE, to notice you’re not at your best, and to SHARPEN YOURSELF. Not (necessarily) for her, but so you’re at your best. Period. That is “the feminine calling you into greatness.”
What she is saying is: You’re failing to lead me, and you’re creating problems for yourself.
And she is right. It’s a coded-message. But it’s correct. She is kind of leading in this moment, and that’s not their role, so the whole thing is uncomfortable.
Can you see that? If you see it that way, it IS about discipline, but for YOU, not for her. The man was out of discipline, and that is the thing to see. And then… to artfully correct.
We don’t apologize, we just realize we had been failing to lead, take it as a warning sign, and get back behind the helm… and DO IT WITH EDGE. With some SWAGGER. Do it with CHARM.
Here it is WITH ALL THREE STAGES:
HER: “we don’t spend time together anymore”
STAGE 1 MAN: F**kin’ A… all you do is nag. STFU, I am trying to watch ESPN.
He has his edge, it’s firm… but it’s retarded. Lose/lose and short sighted. Only a busted girl would stay with a man like that.
HER: “we don’t spend time together anymore”
STAGE 2 MAN: OMG, baby, my princess, I’m soooooo sorry. I am really not taking care of you. You’re a sensitive girl and I should do a better job of taking care of your feelings. What can I do to make it up to you. Let’s go darling… you are all that matters.
Feminine, overly sensitive, weak, etc. There is perception there, and he is reading part of it right, but then responding back in a feminine, spineless way. A kind of weak win/lose response. Lose/lose in the long run.
HER: “we don’t spend time together anymore”
STAGE 3 MAN: Ahhhh… you want some attention, Little Girl? C’mere. Sit on Daddy’s lap.
And then REALLY GIVE HER SOME ATTENTION. Give her SO MUCH ATTENTION… she loses her words. Dominate her, maybe. “FUCK HER OPEN TO GOD.” All of that would work.
That last version is written here to show you the VIBE. He is not disciplining her and going all “thuggy” like Stage 1 guy. Like Stage 2 guy, he is perceptive enough to see what is going on, but he isn’t a wet rag about it like “sensitive guy” would be.
Stage 3… he can see she isn’t getting her needs met, and he wrangles her like a King. He DID make a mess, so he cleans it up, but does it in a ARTFUL/King-like way.
He is taking care of her, and he should. If he wants her “commitment”/loyalty, he DOES have to take care of her needs. Period. You can’t have one without the other. It is a King’s responsibility.
THERE ARE NO RIGHTS WITHOUT RESPONSIBILITIES (credit J.B.Peterson).
But he does it here in a way that gives HIM a glow. It feels good for HIM. It feels GOOD to whip your swagger out, to CHARM a tempestuous girl… what a great opportunity. And it feels good for HER. So good. And feels EXTRA GOOD for her that he does it in a cool way… she gets her needs met, BUT, by a VERY COOL GUY… which is also what she is asking for… what every woman is asking for.
HER: Aren’t you a cool guy????!!!!!!
STAGE 3: Fuck yeah, I’m cool baby… c’mere
STAGE 3: Come sit on a cool guy’s lap
HER: Ouuuuuuuuu!!!!
Boom. Problem solved. Happy couple. No tussle. Just “making art via relationship.”
> “honey, I know I’ve been busy lately and we haven’t spent more time together. Come sit with me. Tell me about your day.”
This ^ sounds like Stage two, but it doesn’t have to be. I could say that, exactly, and she’d instantly go girly for me, or shy, or sweet… same words, but with the look in my eye… AND FOLLOWED BY REAL, HIGH-QUALITY ATTENTION… which is what was missing all along.
Add a little AMUSED MASTERY as you say “come sit with me, tell me about your day” and the “energy” for her will shift. SHE WANTED TO SEE YOUR FULL ATTENTION. If you give it to her, she’ll bloom for you.
Now we are at win/win. Finally. Not easy.
STAGE 3 is about your RESPONSIBILITY, but also your “coolness,” your “ease,” your “effortless, SEXY LEADERSHIP.” THAT is what she wants…. because then she feels “safe,” she feels “seen,” that gives “her feminine” a chance to fully bloom.
And as men, sometimes we need to stay ahead of that. Don’t wait for a complaint – again, she was very possibly “not wrong.” She caught you “being average” and she raged at that. And she was right. Average sucks. We can appreciate that, her calling us forward… (even if we don’t explicitly “thank her”).
So DON’T BE AVERAGE. And don’t wait for a reminder. LEAD her sexy ass. All the time. And you’ll see her best side. It’s work, either way… getting ahead… or catching up. What kind of work do you want to do?
If it sounds hard… it is… certainly. But “the best sides of women” (often their naked sides) aren’t available to men that won’t work to show themselves at their best.
ALL OF THIS IS DAVID DEIDA, btw. I know I’ve talked to you about him. He is a GOD. This is GOD GAME… you’ll only rarely hear in on Twitter, etc. It’s not “you command her” (that is LARPy, “advance Stage I”). It’s not “she worships you (totally Stage 1 goofy shit… it’s missing all the responsibility). DEIDA (and guys like John Wineland, he is a Deida’s student.. and he is very good on this topic)…
They will show you the way.
Win/win. KING GAME.
Appreciate the comments. I wanted to finish Way of the Superior Man before responding, given that you credit these ideas to Deida. And I’m glad I waited. Because this little jewel requires context:
>It would REALLY depend on how he held himself. And the look in his eyes. And the vibe of what he does next.
In the same way that we distinguish between a shit test and a legitimate question of curiosity (“Why do have such an old bracelet on?”) by observing *how* the words were said, it’s important to respond to her moody question in the *right way*. The words alone aren’t enough. In fact, the difference between drawing out love, instead of resent, in our women strongly depends on *how* we respond in turn. And here’s the exciting part: she’s giving us the answer! She’s telling us what she wants, we just need to read between the lines.
>IT’S THE ATTENTION. It is the QUALITY OF THE ATTENTION. That is why his response is kind of right… or completely right, if it came from the right part of him.
Yes, I see that now. She’s not saying “can we go out tonight?”, she’s actually asking for something much simpler. She’s requesting our attention, acknowledgement and presence. She wants to feel like a girl, and she knows we can deliver. That’s all she wants; a little bit of our goodZ so can she can feel goodZ. This is certainly within the power of the guy; he just needs to be able to read her. No, he needs to *feel* her.
Beautiful.
This Stage 3 stuff, it’s incredibly insightful. Thanks for illustrating the various options associated with the idea. It wouldn’t have made sense without concrete examples. I am coming from Stage 2. Reading about this stage, it’s uncanny how much that description resonates with who I was (and the person I’m learning to shake off).
Presuming Stage 1 necessarily precedes Stage 2, I’m not then actually at Stage 2 since I’ve never been at Stage 1. Daygamers have talked about swinging the pendulum to going full jerk. Not sure if that’s necessary either, but as I continue working on my game I know I’ll have to push my boundaries in this area.
>but with the look in my eye… AND FOLLOWED BY REAL, HIGH-QUALITY ATTENTION… which is what was missing all along.
This is THE take-away from your comments and my reading of Deida. Powerful stuff, almost spiritual, really.
Stage 3 seems an interesting place to be. It oddly carries the most burden while blessing the owner of it with absolute freedom. We carry the burden of responsibility, while maintaining the ability to influence our environment. Girl enters upset, man acknowledges the situation, acts accordingly, and revels in the calm that follows from his successful navigation through her desires. What a paradox: responsibility begets freedom.
By the way, I really liked Deida. While chatting with Midwest (https://midwestdaygame.com), I realized that if the Rational Male is the cold, hard slap in the face that reveals truth, then Way of the Superior Man is the firm, but gentle hand that guides you there. I’m glad I read both. At the end of the day, I’m looking at this “inner game” material for one reason: to improve my outer game. I’m in this for fun experiences and lays with girls. Deida, here, gives me a new source to develop my material, a new way to deliver (and discover) my value.
Great suggestion. And great comments!
I am glad you have a good sample of Deida. He is like a tectonic shift vs a firecracker. One is infinitely more massive, but in a certain context, harder to notice.
> Yes, I see that now. She’s not saying “can we go out tonight?”, she’s actually asking for something much simpler. She’s requesting our attention, acknowledgement and presence.
And girls aren’t always benevolent. Sometimes a shittest is really a test. But we as men can reframe it, and then see it as “a call to be our best.” Be our best for US, but then she immediately gets her thirst quenched… the women around us always benefit when we grow. It’s not for them, but it does that job too.
David will tell you that “a woman always wants more.” When you stun her with a wave of masculinity, she is likely to say (non verbally, subconsciously) “yes! just like that! Now give me 2X! 3X! 5X!!!” It is exhausting, but that is part of the dance.
> Presuming Stage 1 necessarily precedes Stage 2, I’m not then actually at Stage 2 since I’ve never been at Stage 1.
It is likely naturally in you. If we broke you down, there it would be. I don’t think “full jerk” (or “developing your edge”) requires Stage 1. You can show edge in Stage 3 – that edge might help “open her.”
Stage one is a kind of selfishness, a childish taking…. it’s not a skillset.
Each stage “retains” the others, and I would say you can be aware of those basic “needs,” but you don’t need to “master them.”
> We carry the burden of responsibility, while maintaining the ability to influence our environment. Girl enters upset, man acknowledges the situation, acts accordingly, and revels in the calm that follows from his successful navigation through her desires. What a paradox: responsibility begets freedom.
Yeah. Well said.
> I’m looking at this “inner game” material
I will add that Stage Three is full of outer game. It’s just NEVER about “trickery.” There are specifics about how to “open your woman.” About how to use your “masculine consciousness to wake her up.” It is tactical… But that can come in time.
Viva Breeze