One week after I gave The Talk to Ukrainian, we met up for a date. After dinner she gave me her counter to The Talk. I wrote most of this piece in the following two days as I was working out how to proceed. I now publish it one week afterwords, though I keep the writing in present tense to capture my sentiments of the moment.
I first started to blog for the advertisement and validation in the community. That’s only partly true today, since now I experience additional benefits to documenting my story.
For one, I enjoy writing. I enjoy the challenge of putting down my thoughts into a coherent, organized fashion in a way that allows me to develop a unique voice. It’s a new skill to develop. With each blog post, I learn a different way to capture the chaotic neuro-synaptic activity in my brain down on a medium that other sentient beings1 are able to comprehend. The preceding sentence, for example, took two minutes to structure and refine.
Secondly, it’s a mechanism to chronicle my memories. This is my story. One that I can come back to and look upon years down the line. By publishing this to the public quorum, it motivates me to write clean and with a greater sense of importance. A private diary would ultimately be a jumbled list of notes that are minimally legible. I would never return to them for the mess would be.
A byproduct of the latter is that writing also helps me to clarify my own thoughts. It helps me uncover my underlying psychology and grow from it.
So I will use today’s blog post to think “outloud”. I want to work through recent events and my feelings towards them. As I start this post, I believe that feeling to be guilt.
If you read my last blog post, then you know I gave Ukrainian The Talk about non-monogamy. For three months now, we’ve been on a weekly schedule, though over Thanksgiving we went on a mini-getaway to a nearby city. I sensed her getting closer and closer to me over the last few weeks, as she would say really sweet things like:
I really like how I feel with you.
You know what the best part of the weekend is? It’s that I get to see you 🙂
Very lovey-dovey.
And she’s a kind, sweet lady in general. She makes up my bed nicely in the morning, she cleans up the kitchen, and sometimes she cooks breakfast. She doesn’t post on social media, she reads books and holds a cheerful disposition. She doesn’t question me or shit test often.
The trigger to The Talk was when she called me boyfriend last weekend. Next time, I’ll try something along the lines of Nash’s suggestion and nip it in the bud with “Not boyfriend, lover. You sexy, little tiger ;-)”.
Now last weekend, one week after The Talk, we had a date. She arrived, dolled up but with a cold disposition. I didn’t think too much of it. In the past, she might need 5-10 minutes to unwind and join me in the moment. This night, however, after 90 minutes of dinner at a restaurant she still hadn’t changed tune. I kept it lighthearted, rambling on about this or that. She engaged but it was clear she had something on her mind. We took a short walk then went back to mine.
A few minutes later, sat across from each other at the single table in my wee little 300 sq. ft. apartment, we continue the light-hearted chit chat though her coldness never eases. There’s no sense in further delaying her concerns, so I present her with the opportunity to dive right in, “you look like you have something to say”. After telling me her roommate’s dog died, she then moves on to the topic of us. “I thought about what you said last week”, she begins.
Given her reserved vibe throughout the evening, I knew the axe had fallen. There was no damage control to be had; it’s game over. She sheds no tears; there are no raised voices. Here are some of the points she shared with me over the 15-minute conversation.
“I enjoy our time together.”
“I really like you.”
“I’m 27. I don’t have time to just enjoy our time together. This needs to evolve.”
“You can have other girls. I’m fine with that.”
“You don’t compliment me enough and I don’t feel appreciated.”
“Why are you doing this?” (When I did not agree to “evolve” the relationship forward. She says this while holding back tears. I believe my feeling of guilt was primarily provoked by this commented.)
“I can’t even tell if you like me. Only last week when I asked about it, did you tell me nice things. I know my value.”
I’m glad I didn’t mislead her, but I feel bad that I didn’t make her feel appreciated. It’s a tricky balance. The Nice Guy in me is pulled in opposite directions. I don’t want to mislead her into investing more time than she’s prepared to for a non-committed relationship, nor do I want her to feel undervalued. Ultimately, I believe it’s better to err on the side of not misleading her. As much as I value and protect my time, it’s not as limited as a women’s who is approaching The Wall.
I thought about this quite a bit. On the one hand she says “I enjoy our time together”, on the other “I don’t feel appreciated”. I now interpret this as her lacking security in my company. It’s not that she didn’t feel appreciated, it’s that she didn’t know where along the totem pole her name was carved in. The truth is, I never gave it much thought. She’s high up there, but not high enough for me to consider any form of commitment. This is more a comment of where I stand in my Player’s Journey than on her value. In retropsect, perhaps I could have prolonged the relationship by being less stingy with compliments and injecting more future projection into our conversations. I could have texted more often and told her that I’ll miss her, that I can’t wait to see her again and that I think about her during the week.
But is that fair to her? It would imply to her that I want something more from the relationship than I really do. Does it make sense to string her along, when she’s only 2-4 years from The Wall? And here’s the thing; she knows about it. She knows her clock is ticking. Our time horizons are asymmetric. I told her “I have no intention of ending this. I enjoy our time together and would like to continue spending time together. But I can’t tell you anything more than that.”
Maybe this is too far along a Dark Triad mindset, but perhaps the lack of security amplified her feelings for me. Torero used to say “it’s every girl’s dream to tame the Bad Boy”. Now, granted, I didn’t sell myself as the free-wheeling Bad Boy, but it was pretty clear that I won’t be tied down so easily. Is it unreasonable to belief that brought out the best in her?
Interestingly enough, I heard something very similar from my last girlfriend; we dated from 2016-2018 soon after I began reading about The Red Pill. She never felt secure–and 3 months after we broke up she said she still likes me a lot and that she doesn’t care about all those little things she broke up with me about. Things like seeing her more often, calling more often, texting more often and planning our future together. At that point, I had read enough about Daygame to create me own dreams of becoming a player, so I politely declined by telling her that we bought knew it would be a waste of her time–she’s looking for a guy that can give her more than I could.
When I look back over all the things Ukrainian said, it appears that she left some leeway here; she said I’m free to see other girls but that she would like to see our relationship “evolve”. I didn’t ask what it meant, but I can guess. It’s her attempt at compromise. She gets more of my time, which then leaves me with less for other girls, and she’ll slowly monopolize my remaining time until we’re effective exclusive. Fair play; it’s a very smart move on her part. She’s wants to build her position in my life.
I protect my time quite vigoursly. I’m deeply introverted and enjoy my time alone. Whether it be for reading, toobin YouTubin’, Twittering, and–if all goes well–getting back in the jiu jitsu gym2. And it’s not uncommon for my job to introduce periods of intensity in which regular business hours are extended into the evenings or weekends. Once COVID ends and the weather picks back up, I must also return to my street work. Time is finite. Throughout the conversation, I was aware that any agreement we are to work out must abide by the preceding commitments on my time.
Ukrainian raised this request for more of my time together by asking if I would be willing to give spend weekdays evenings with her, whereas we’ve kept a weekend schedule up until now. I replied “sometimes, maybe.” She conveyed her dissapointment by chuckling–a typical trait of hers.
I never gave up my Frame when we spoke; I believe strongly the attraction is still there, which means the option is still on the table. But I don’t think it’s fair to take; I think she’ll do herself more favors by keeping her eyes peeled for a long-term provider. She holds no false notions about her clock.
Perhaps the Niceset thing I can do for her is to be honest, is to keep our tryst only as long as the New Relationship Energy is at it’s peak, then let her jump aboard the next fisherman’s boat who catch her from the Daygame River (or wherever normal people meet).
The goal is to see if I can give her more without compromising my boundaries and agree upon a set expectations. That is, can I find an overlap of intent? I will call her in the next day or two and explore this possibility.
In all this planning, I’ve left out the feeling of guilt. The feeling strikes hardest when I recall the moment in which she said “Why are you doing this? I thought we could really be something, we believe in many of the same things. How do you not see my value?”
Initially I thought my feelings of guilt were due to her feeling unappreciated; though as stated above I believe that in truth, she felt insecure in our relationship.
I think something deeper happened. I think she was having difficulty accepting rejection by a high-value guy. She’s pretty, and she’s aware of her orbiters and has a vault of experiences in which men (tried to) hit on her. She knows she can easily grab on to a guy from her social or professional circles. But she doesn’t want them. They didn’t charmed her pants off.
I did.
And now she can’t tie me down. And she’s doing her damndest to protect her ego and avoid a thought process in which she ends up believing her value was too low for me. This really isn’t the case, in her defense. But I think the pain she felt during her Counter Talk was caused by the hit to her ego.
Can I feel guilty about that? If I were to tell her that she’s not what I’m looking for, then yeah, that would be kind of a dick move because it would further deepen those feelings. Instead, I told her I’m not looking for anything long-term; it’s her own machinations that conspire to attack her ego.
I proclaim that I shan’t feel guilty then. A statement completely meaningless to my amygdala. And guilt, I feel.
I’m just not hardened by the Game. Yet.
Update
I called Ukrainian and offered her more time and openness. Though she’s okay with my seeing other girls, she also wants me to involve her in my long-term planning, with an implied path towards co-habitation. In Blackdragon terms, I was offering her an MLTR position while she wanted to jump into an OLTR. I couldn’t give her that, which now closes the chapter on the Ukrainian Fortune Teller.
Read the full story in these posts:
- How Deep does the Ball hole go?
- Good fortune with a fortune teller
- Breeze gives The Talk
- Breeze gets the Counter Talk (you are here)
She sounds like a smart, feminine, put-together woman. Smart, because she knows that having a family is the most important thing in life, and because she doesn’t want to waste a lot of time with a guy who isn’t going to give her that. Feminine women are more likely to be interested in family.
She’s doing good here. She’s articulating what she wants and needs. She’s being emotional and open but not throwing a fit.
If you’d caught her a few years prior, you might have found her in a slut phase. At 27, she’s doing the right things.
As you say, girls who are at least a high 6 or above always have a few guys available, guys who they know they could choose.
Good work overall.
>At 27, she’s doing the right things.
This was my best read, too. The option to string her along existed–but I didn’t see any value to myself either.
I could either spend time with a girl that will always work an angle to monopolize my time (fair play on her part, especially under the pretense of a LTR), or spend that time on building value and, once the weather brightens and COVID ends, get back to running the streets.
Always a tough situation when chicks want to lock you down, but sounds like you handled it well. Makes me wonder–given that she says she’s OK with you seeing other women, if that’s where we might be headed: a society where women are willing to share a high value man rather than monopolize a lesser one…hard to say.
I mean, in some ways I feel genuinely bad for chicks today, because at the end of it all, MOST of them want marriage and a family, as they should. The problem is they end up doing all kinds of other bullshit at the whims of societal expectations for women, including going to college, having careers, but mostly, just waiting too damn long. And then, once in a marriage, we’ve absolved them of the responsibility to take it seriously and make a decent effort–same is true in some ways for men.
Anyway, whatever you’ve done, she really fucking likes you man…and ultimately, that means very good game on your part.
>a society where women are willing to share a high value man rather than monopolize a lesser one
In the not too recent past, I believe this was common in some European countries. For example, the French Prime Minister (or President?) would have a mistress, as well as many other politicians and celebrities. It was an open secret.
The rule, as I understand it, was you keep it to yourself and don’t let it interfere with your home life. Perhaps this is a sustainable model to modern day marriage.